Domspeak Forums Discussions Off Topic & Politics "selling a bike" - an analogy

Ok, pretend i am trying to sell Ted a bike....

i say "I think the bike is worth 5k"

Ted looks at the model of that bike, as new (on froogle, or something similar), and says, "it is only worth 1000, using intrinsic value"

I whisper a secret to Ted (which i will disclose later - the extrinsic value).

Ted hands me 5k. he is happy with the purchase. (assume i was able to offer Ted proof of the extrinsic value).

This is similar to the Trump case where he is charged with inflating assets\property for his loan, which is weird, the lenders were happy with this value Trump stated for his properties.... the lenders were paid back, only the State of New York had a problem, during an election year, not during the year of the transaction.

So now, in 2024, i want run for a political spot in New York, i have right wing policies, and i am polling well..., but word has gotten out about this bike transaction. both parties were happy with the transaction. But now the Government wants me to go to jail for this transaction?

is that fair?

Ted, why did you buy the bike off me (hypothetically)? What extrinsic value would it have?

others are welcome to guess....

My guess is that some people believe what is told to them either from predisposition bias or not considering the other side of the coin.

coderanger posted:
This is similar to the Trump case where he is charged with inflating assets\property for his loan, which is weird, the lenders were happy with this value Trump stated for his properties.... the lenders were paid back, only the State of New York had a problem, during an election year, not during the year of the transaction.

Response:
My wife gave me another analogy when this issue broke:
Assume you wanted to borrow 20K to remodel and use your home that you valued at 100K as collateral.
The lender felt your home was only worth 75K but approved your loan anyway.
The loan was repaid, the bank profited from the interest, the home was remodeled, the contractor was happy to be paid promptly, and years later, you get arrested.

You are spot on. It is a show me the man and I will "Find" the crime situation.

It is astounding the government would claim to know more what a property is worth than the bank who had it professionally assessed. I lived in South Florida for about 10 years. Jack and I had two homes, both half an hour from West Palm Beach in each direction. (One was the Club Dom estate) Real estate ebbs and flows in South Florida. West Palm Beach, especially on the water, is insanely expensive. People commonly tear down multi million dollar, beach front homes, to put in a mega palace. What they did to Trump was wrong. There was no victim or unhappy customer. It is clear it was a witch hunt.

Re: The Government

They have been the enemies of the people forever....And especially since December 23, 1913.

This was the day that President Wilson created the BEAST...(ie: The Federal Reserve Bank)

Since that day the "FED" has stolen 98% of the value of every dollar in America...And the only people who made/make money are those directly connected to the Federal Reserve Bank, their friends and all those wealthy political donors......

This institution has played a huge role in every depression, recession and most definitely contributes to inflation.....All the members are nominated by the President for 14 year terms...

They call themselves public servants when the reverse is true.

I don't want to get all religious and speak with biblical prophecies but I am starting to believe it's all true.....This is Satan's world (and time is running out for Satan).....All of these politicians and every single person on ANY form of media is an agent of Satan.....

They ALL promote themselves by using the evil in this world...None of them do anything except create and promote more evil... Every last one of them from Sean Hannity to Tucker Carlson to AOC to Nancy Pelosi are making a fortune off of the suffering/hatred/division (which they create and promote)....Every last one of them have had book deals and in some cases 10 book deals. (Ie: Mark Levin)

None of them will EVER let the rest of us live in peace and harmony...There's no Fucking money in that......

They are calling on Trump to be some sort of "Hitler" and claim he will do Hitler like things.....They might just get what they asked for after this is all over...

Just like Germany in the 1930's..Americans are calling on a savior....People forget that Hitler was originally an artist who eventually won Time Magazine man of the year....But the idea of seeking vengeance for wrong doings was always there....(ie:The treaty of Versailles which wronged Germany)....

The German people were calling on Hitler to be their savior...(Just in case anyone wants to know why the German people could support him) It was because they wanted retribution. Hitler gave them what they wanted.

Trumps people (over 100 million) are begging for vengeance...

So in theory Trump could do exactly what Hitler did because it will all be about vengeance....The people who support him will demand it...The question is does Trump have the balls to pull it off......

Btw,

He didn't have the balls when it came to Arresting Hillary Clinton..(instead they arrested him to cover their evil deeds) Even though Trump promised his supporters he would....And trust me, there were a lot of criminal activities that Hillary was involved in personally......But Trump gave her a pass......Big mistake.

Will he make that same mistake if elected again?

Biblical prophecies are coming into play. I thought the Covid19 shot would be necessary to buy anything, even groceries. We dodged a bullet on that one but for how long?

Trump has claimed he will seek justice but not revenge. I hope he holds true to that. The Biden's and Clinton's should live by the same legal standards that everyone else does. If Trump doesn't regret pursuing legal action against Clinton, he's a fool. He gets no where from backing down. There is no reason for vengeance. Seeing them held accountable for their illegal endeavors is enough. Is it too late to prosecute over the Steele Dossier? That was brazen election interference. To civil standards, it was slander.

I agree that much of what is taking place today was predicted in the Bible, Revelations to be specific. I'm agnostic these days but attended a Christian High School and studied the Bible, quite seriously, into my late twenties. Although I don't accept all of it, there are some very good and prophetic information in the Bible. It is amazing that someone all of those centuries ago was able to describe, in vocabulary they could understand, what is taking place today. As TedB pointed out, a cashless society is being lead up to.

As for Trump being like Hitler, I don't see it. The Democrats are the one that have no restraint in taking over the lives of the American people, including their children's care. I do hope that Trump will taking legal action with the justice system. Hillary destroyed evidence that was under subpoena and face no repercussions. Although I've come to agree with you, for the most part, about Kennedy Jr., I loved that he talked critically and candidly about the corruption of government agencies. For whatever reason, they are in bed with the Democrats. Trump tried to play nice with the swamp his first go around as President. That is like feeding an alligator and expecting it to be your friend. Hopefully, he's learned without going over the top or making it personal.

"As for Trump being like Hitler, I don't see it"


For the record I am for Trump which you know....And I most definitely see a lot of similarities with Hitler...

1. Both were extremely charismatic speakers...

2. Both held gigantic rallies

3. Both used their airplanes as campaign tools.. Hitler was the first to make a big impression on the crowds with the use of his own airplane.

4. Both were trying to replace the most corrupt governments. The Weimar Republic and Democratic Party.

5. Hitler hated the Jews, for Trump its the ILLEGALS...

6. Both have strong support from the people.

7. Hitler wanted to be an accomplished artist, Trump a Hollywood Star....

8. Hitler wrote Mein Kampf explaining how he will conduct business, Trump wrote Art of the Deal explaining how he conducts business...

9. Both Hitler and Trump were extreme Nationlists.

10. Hitler had/created the Nazi movement and Party. Trump most definitely created the MAGA movement party....

11. The Nazi part had the Swastika while the MAGA party has those red hats...

12. The Weimar Republic put Hitler in prison (where he wrote his book) The Democrat Party is trying to do the same thing. (On July 11th)

13. After prison Hitler became stronger and more popular than ever....Same thing is happening with Trump.

These are a few things off the top of my head...

The age old question is why did the German people allow Hitler to rise...It was because they wanted it too.....

Btw,

I was thinking about the question of vengeance vs justice...Aren't they the same thing?

Let me put this another way.. If we really don't have a fair justice system and it's two tiered and corrupt like most Americans now believe (as an Attorney and officer of the court I can assure you it's two tiered and corrupt, not to mention completely political with politically appointed judges) then isn't Vengeance the only other option ?

So it's either Vengeance or slavery to a corrupt government in my book...That's how I see it.

P.S.

Re: Robert Kennedy Jr

Now I know why I have always detested that entire family..Do you know that this clown is ONLY on the ballot in the 6 swing states..And just 6...This guy literally is trying to steal votes away from Trump I think....Just like Ross Perot gave us Bill Clinton....

It's sad that some Americans (especially people in MA) treat this family like royalty....When in fact their entire family's wealth came from illegal means.....All the kids, grandkids and great grandkids inherited this corrupted fortune...

Here is where I differ when you on Trump and some of the analogies that you've made:

Trump doesn't hate illegals. He hates that they have full, unvetted access to our country.

Hitler sought to make the Jews scapegoats. The Jewish communities were flourishing, on their own with no social services. The average Jewish family was better off, on the own accord, than the average Jewish family. That is very different than the illegal immigrants coming to the US and receiving benefits that the average American does not. Some states, Such as Whitmer's Michigan, offers $500. a month (Tax payer funded) subsidiarity to land lords who rent to immigrants over American citizens. The list is quite long. But, the bottom line is that no one wants to torture and kill illegal immigrants. Trump is not advocating for that. Far from it. The message is to stop coming to the US illegally and return to your country of origin if you do not have documentation to be here. Trump is advocating for illegals to be returned to their countries, on the US's dime, safely and responsibly. Again, far cry from the horrors of the Holocaust.

So, Trump dabbled in being a reality show star and Hitler wanted to be an artist. That makes them alike in a meaningful way? Do you have any idea how many people are working as a programmer, attorney, school teacher, grocery store clerk...whatever it may be...and would rather be doing something else? Just think about all of the struggling musicians that have day time jobs to keep their bills paid.

What is wrong with being a Nationalist? I have to disagree that Trump is an "Extreme" Nationalist? He isn't seeking to harm other countries or take over the world. He advocates for America first, in America. Everyone should feel that way about whatever country they are in.

I will stop there with the list of comparisons as I think you get my point. We could pick any two people and find similarities of some kind. It doesn't mean they are capable of the same type of behaviors.

As far as the difference between justice and vengeance, yes, I very much believe there is a difference. Vengeance would have someone harmed because they did something wrong to you. Justice would be seeking they be held accountable to the same standard of the law as anyone else. Beyond that, it is protection our justice system for everyone, not just people in the spotlight.

At the end of the day, I believe that Trump truly wants to do a good job and be remembered as an exceptionally good President. Whether that is coming from his ego or true heart for the American people, is up for anyone to decide. As long as he does a reasonably good job at running our country well, I'll be happy.

PS: That is lousy about Kennedy Jr. Maybe he saw he couldn't win and caved into pressure as not to further alienate himself from his family and peers. I've always detested the family and wondered how so many Americans could worship them. Teddy' a Senator instead of serving time in jail? Too much! But Kennedy Jr. stood up and spoke out against our horrible government agencies. He called corruption that where no one with a voice has done. What he said about the FDA, Fauci, vaccinations and quality of research going back to HIV, was music to my ears. Too bad he either wasn't sincere or didn't have the integrity to stand up to the pressure. He has flip flopped and back peddled other issues he had impressed me with as well.

Let me make a correction...Hating Illegals was too strong a phrase....

However Trump like Hitler is a theatrical media artist. He is a professional at knowing his audience. He knows many in his audience hate illegals just like many in his audience hate the FBI....A good speaker must always know his audience and must always be able to read the crowd....Bill Clinton, JFK, Hitler and Trump all had this gift.....

"Hitler sought to make the Jews scapegoats"

Hitler convinced himself that Jews were involved in Communism and wanted to take over the world. Hitler also believed that Jews because of their alleged association with Communism were the cause of Germanies economic collapse...Hitler was a MASTER theatrical media artist who was able to convince millions of Germans on this idea...

"Jewish families were flourishing"

But National Germans (or as Hitler Called them Pure Germans) were suffering BIG TIME under the Weimar Republic. Financially speaking...While the "Jewish families were flourishing"....

Germans could not afford anything under the Weimar Republic but they could still go to a Hitler Rally and have a good time. They could feel a sense of community and purpose at a Hitler rally.....

The same could be said for many millions of Americans today.. Many can't afford anything anymore but they can go to a Trump rally and feel a sense of community and purpose....

I didn't say Trump or anyone wants to "torture and kill illegal immigrants".....Hitler and the Germans didn't want to torture or kill Jews either in the beginning....In the beginning they just wanted them out of their society....The torturing and killing came later....

"So Trump dabbled in being a reality star and Hitler wanted to be an artist, that makes them alike in a meaningful way"...

Hitler wanted to be an A list artist and Trump wants to be an A list Hollywood movie star. Both weren't even on the D list in those fields.....So psychologically speaking this is a meaningful likeness. I have always said and believed that most politicians are just actors who were too ugly for Hollywood.....

There is nothing wrong with being a Nationalist. And I feel that way too....I was just comparing the similarities from a historical perspective between Hitler and Trump..

Trump believes in America first (in fact MAGA is his entire campaign slogan) .....Hitler believed in Germany first too....Aw ha another similarity...

Re: RFK JR

I have said it before and I will say it again...This man is the worst Kennedy of them all....Maybe even worse than Ted....

"Maybe he saw that he couldn't win"


NO, he knew for a fact that he couldn't win from the beginning and he is only doing this to play a spoiler....And he could hurt Trump big time....The guy purposely got himself on the ballot in a half dozen CRUCIAL swing states only....Nevada, North Carolina, Michigan and New Hampshire....He also just filed paperwork for Pennsylvania yesterday.....If this scum even gets 5-10% of the votes in those states Trump could lose and we have Biden for 4 more years....

All Kennedys are filthy scum.....

Btw,

You also know that I am with Trump....So it's not like I am some never Trumper writing this opinion piece.

P.S.

I listened to Meghan Kelly rip RFK to shreds this past Sunday...Not that I like her either but I just happened to catch her show on Sirius XM....She destroyed this phoney on every topic...

I won't disagree that Trump is a "Theatrical media artist." He's just a lousy one in the political arena. He has more misses than hits. He also undervalues the people who want to see what he come to fruition or, at least, die after a strenuous effort. He well may have won the last election but it would have been impossible to have been in dispute if he hadn't of alienated a good portion of his voting base that want "Where the rubber meets the road." This is not to say that he didn't do some great thing, given the circumstances. But, his theatrical performance let a lot of people down. With the media? He invited Bob Woodward in. He's set himself up so many times.

It is difficult to believe that people in Trump's audience hate illegals. It is my opinion that they hate them being here. Come in the right way. They hate that the Democrats have opened the flood gates. I can't read minds. But, that is my take.

I can't imagine why anyone would inconvenience themselves to go a political rally of any kind. I also can't write off the people who do as having the same motivations for personal circumstances.

Good actors who were too ugly for Hollywood? LOL. I've heard that before. I see what you mean. But, I find the comparison to be trivial. A lot of people, of all different flavors fit that bill.

F451, do you realize how much we have in common? Voting tendencies, disgust with the government and media, love of dogs with a preference of labs, home schooling, hanging out in fetish discussion forums, both lived in the North East, ties to Italian Culture, an appreciation for authentic pizza and, I'm sure there is a lot more. It doesn't mean we would follow the same behavioral paths in various situations. Even Soapy and I have enough in common that a list could be compiled.

I don't have Sirus but will see if I can find Kelly's piece on Kennedy Jr. He's a brilliant speaker with historical and detailed facts on his side. His flip flopping and self contraindications...along with what you are telling me now was enough to turn me around on respect for him. I tend to think it is the liberal wife who has him wrapped around her finger, to the point, he backed down from his strong says a lot. This reminds me, add to the list of similar views we have...I think the Kennedy family is scum too. I've been quite outspoken about that, especially Ted.

And, yes, I know you are a Trump supporter. I have a list of grievances with him as well. We just differ on what our overall views of him and core supporters are.

Trump is a lot of things but he is no Hilter. It is a scare tactic from the libtards. Robert Kennedy can roast in hell as far as I'm concerned. He is a wolf in sheep's clothing or the brain worm got to him.

Yes we definitely agree on practically everything and we definitely have similar likes....


I just ALWAYS think outside of the box and there is no way no how I would ever let anyone from the media influence me. I always think for myself...

Like you I was STRICTLY raised with a religious family...My mother was a Sunday School teacher.......So was my great aunt....

My thinking and it might sound weird is that we are definitely in the end times...Much of my thinking is based on Revelations.....(ie: The whole antichrist stuff)

Re: Trump

There is no way that he cannot want vengeance for everything these people have done to him....It's only human to want vengeance and NOT justice because the justice system (ie: The Government is completely corrupt) And everyone knows that now.

The people want it too....At least enough of them....

Right now we are at a point (for anyone who is awake enough to see) that it is either let them kill you or fight back...

Again I knew Trump would try to destroy the system from the beginning....And if he couldn't destroy it he would at least expose it.....

Again I back him 100%...

My point about him being similar to Hitler is really about the idea of vengeance....Hitler like Trump both hated Communists...And rightfully so.....

In Hitlers case he started off great rebuilding Germany and defeating the Communists but of course everything went way off track and 60 million people died in the long run...But in the beginning everyone was with Hitler.....

Robert Kennedy is wickedly evil and nobody is even talking about it.....

Everybody is all hyped up about the debate and the polls and the rallies and everything else....

But to me its all about simple mathematics.....If this clown just gets 5-10% of the vote in those 6 swing states....Then Trump can be fucked....And we will be fucked too....

This guy has zero chance of winning and he is only on 6 state ballots (with Pennsylvania coming soon)....For a reason....

Why did he pick those particular 6-7 battleground states and ONLY those 6? We all know why.....

Leave it to a Kennedy to destroy more lives......

The kick in the pants is that the dimocrats spent the last year trying to ruin him. Now, what he's doing is helping them.

I thought this was another media lie from day one....How they kept saying its "gonna help Trump and hurt Biden".....

They want people to believe that..... They tried everything under the sun to destroy Trump....And having RFK on those 6 swing state ballots could be the trick that really destroys him.....

We all know how close a few of those states are.....Its simple math.....If RFK does what Nicky Haley DID and gets 5-12% of the vote then Trump is in trouble......

This is all being done on purpose....



If anything these times have proven how so many democrats and rinos are truly supporting a corrupt power structure willing to turn our country into a Stalinist police state to remain in power.

They also keep telling Americans to "Get Out and Vote"....But I don't believe we can vote our way out of this shit....