Domspeak Forums Discussions Off Topic & Politics Is Noem Even Dumber than Biden?

Cheyenne Posted:
As far as the dog's age in people years. The rule of thumb is to multiple the dogs age by 7, for all breeds.

Response:
That rule of thumb has been shown to be invalid for young dogs years ago.
Regardless, the term puppy imparts a vision of a dog under a year and under 30 pounds.
The goal of the left-wing spinners (MSM for short) is to impart that image.

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Cheyenne Posted:
You've never been involved in animal rescue have you?

Response:
No.
I've only had three dogs in my life.
One was a hound that had the freedom of acres of land.
We rehomed him with neighbors who had ample space when we moved to California where we would be limited to an average back yard.
We then got a Chihuahua because we liked having a dog and we felt the yard was large enough for him.
We enjoyed him but lost him after a short time and replaced him by rehoming another Chihuahua that had behavior issues.
My mom felt we could turn him around with a loving environment but it was a disaster.
It sounds funny when I say we were terrorized by that ankle biter, but it wasn't pleasant for us or the dog.

Sorry, I digress. I do not have experience with animal shelters or facilities that perform behavioral euthanasia.
My search found this quote (I posted it previously but I have no inkling as to whether you bothered to read it or not):
"As a founder of a rescue & longtime foster, it sounds cliche, but people are looking for a pet; not a project. It's neither fair nor ethical to put dangerous dogs out into the community. Every single time I can remember that we 'took a chance' on an iffy dog, the dog ended up ultimately euthanized anyway, but after causing a lot of physical and/or emotional damage to the family, both human and canine."
- source - https://k9infocus.com/losing-lulu/

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Cheyenne Posted:
There is a national network. Then, there is this magical thing called the internet. It is likely someone in a South Dakota suburb would have taken him.

Response:
Again, South Dakota has a sparse population.
On average, the closest candidate for rehoming is over 10 times as far as in Tennessee.
Finding a home for a chicken killing dog that has turned on its owner may not have been feasible.

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Cheyenne Posted:
Again, there is no use of responding to you because you keep coming at
me with the same BS and ignoring my points.

Response:
I wouldn't have to repeat my "BS" if you would respond to it.
Tell me you didn't watch the video for what ever reason,
Tell me the quote I linked to doesn't apply,
Tell me that farming life traits are less moral than city life traits,
But please don't just say it's BS and proudly spout off that you don't intend to read it.
You say you want conversation on this board but you stifle it.
I don't know if you are even going to read this post.

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Cheyenne Posted:
I don't believe Noem. Her story on the dog and the goat do not make sense and are self contradicting.

Response:
Fine. I had my shot at showing you another perspective and failed.

That wasn't my point anyway, namely the MSM creates the narrative.
Unless you used a source that contextualizes the MSM selected quotes, your perception is that narrative.

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Cheyenne Posted:
Now you are trying to bring Martin up AGAIN? Let's drop, Chuck. It is going no where.

Response:
Martin is a perfect example of MSM creating a false image and using edited quotes.
It had major implications that sparked BLM demonstrations and riots.

Fahrenheit451 posted:
I didn't say I read her whole book....I said I read her exact quotes from that book...

Response:
There is a difference when you say "you read IN the book" and "you read FROM the book."
The distinction is important because reading in the book implies context where reading quotes from the book implies out of context.
As I mentioned to Cheyenne in another post, the MSM created the narrative.
Unless you used a source that contextualizes the MSM selected quotes, your perception is that narrative.

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Fahrenheit451 posted:
And why do you care so much about this career money and power hungry politician for anyways?

Response:
I care about integrity in reporting and I'm pointing out how effective this character attack tactic is.

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Fahrenheit451 posted:
What the HELL does he need someone from South Dakota for...He already has that state in the bag...

Response:
Probably Trump was prioritizing someone who would do a good job over a figurehead who happens to live in a battleground state.

You keep making the same points, to my same responses and, absurdly, accusing me of following the media machine's narrative. It is a lame insult, especially to someone like me that doesn't fall into that garbage and often points it out, even when it is a conservative outlet doing it. Noem's stated actions and her own words, without any commentary, did not go over well with a lot of people. This is a country of dog lovers and a tremendous effort in animal rescue. No one needs to attack Noem's character, she's doing it all by herself. The best thing the liberals could have done was shut up. If your opponent is digging their own grave, don't grab the shovel.

Do you know the exact area she was living in when she killed her 14 month old canine? And, weight has nothing to do with whether a dog is still viewed as a pup. As I said earlier, I've got a 65 pound 10 month old pup. Before that I fostered a great pyrenees pup that was about the same age and even bigger. But, you are getting lost in the term pup. The facts speak for themselves regardless of when you believe pups become dogs. Do I need to keep repeating myself? You are getting lost in the minutia.

As far as people are looking for a pet not a project, that is not always true. This coming from someone who doesn't like to hear the mantra of "Adopt don't shop." People are making a big commitment when taking in a dog. Not everyone is equipped for a rescue. But, many are. For example, both Michelle Lacy and my daughter adopt elderly dogs. They know full well they often come with health problems, such as not being able to hold their bladder. Between my niece and I, we have both taken in 3 dogs with aggression problems over the years. We both knew what we were getting into and had as much background on the dogs as possible. They were all beautiful success stories. It isn't always like that but people know going in. One of these dogs was a 6 month old, very big German Shepherd who had never been socialized. We are far from the only ones. I see it all of the time volunteering in animal rescue. Not a lot of people would have had the time, patience and financial resources to bring the 5 week old Boston Terrier puppy through her health ordeal and the short lived but very difficult behavior issues that came from it. Today, she is a happy, healthy 5 year old dog and is the best "Project" I ever brought into my life. There are fosters who specialize in dogs and cats that have issues due to abuse or neglect. So, who are you to declare what people want when you have no experience with rescue?

And, I'm certainly not trying to stifle communication. You are free to say whatever you want. But, when you insult me with the MSM BS, I'm not going to keep responding. I don't like to be insulted with falsehoods and I don't like to be responding to the same points over and over and over again. Gesh, I get that from Ted enough.

And, what is the article about "Losing Lulu?' It has incredibly small, light print that is difficult to read, is ungodly wordy and someone's opinion. Again, I get enough of that from Ted. Make your own points instead of finding random articles and videos you found on the internet, trying to make a point you don't really have the education or experience to understand.

I don't take msm seriously. They all spin. They all lie. I don't know what narrative they are supposedly pushing. But, if it lines up with what most of the posters here have concluded on their own accord, maybe the scoundrels finally got something right.

Cheyenne posted:
You keep making the same points, to my same responses...

Response:
Perhaps if you bothered to read them, address my points, and answer questions, I wouldn't have to repeat myself.
(BTW, I asked you if you made something up. That was rude of me and the fact that I was angry at the time is no excuse. I'm sorry. I should have just asked you for your source.)

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Cheyenne posted:
...absurdly, accusing me of following the media machine's narrative. It is a lame insult

Response:
I don't intend to insult, but if I think you are in error, I will mention it.
I believe you have commented on me when you think I'm wrong (or a bullshitter).

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Cheyenne posted:
...especially to someone like me that doesn't fall into that garbage [media spin] and often points it out...

Response:
No one is immune. You base many of your opinions on emotion and emotions are what the MSM plays on.

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Cheyenne posted:
Noem's stated actions and her own words, without any commentary, did not go over well with a lot of people.

Response:
You've made the point several times that having a "lot of people" agree with you means you're right.
I've shown you examples where that is not the case.

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Cheyenne posted:
Do you know the exact area she was living in when she killed her 14 month old canine?

Response:
No I don't. She could be a couple of miles from town or 100 miles away.
I'm as ignorant as you and most other people.
Most I know about her situation comes from the MSM selected quotes.
If there are articles with mitigating facts available, I suspect Google has buried them in search results.

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Cheyenne posted:
And, weight has nothing to do with whether a dog is still viewed as a pup.

Response:
Frankly the actual definition of puppy and the owner's perception don't really matter.
The fact is if you call a dog a puppy, most will visualize small animal only a few months old.
More often than not, that visualization will override the effect of any statistic to the contrary.

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Cheyenne posted:

So, who are you to declare what people want when you have no experience with rescue?

Response:
So, who are you to declare what people can do when you don't know the circumstances?
Have any of your dogs turned on you with the intent of injuring you?
Have you ever been unable to stop a dog that is acting violently (such as killing chickens?
BTW, did yo ever view the video I linked to? It is short (about 30 seconds if I remember right).

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Cheyenne posted:
And, what is the article about "Losing Lulu?' It has incredibly small, light print that is difficult to read, is ungodly wordy and someone's opinion. Again, I get enough of that from Ted. Make your own points instead of finding random articles and videos you found on the internet, trying to make a point you don't really have the education or experience to make.

I made my point with the quote I posted. I provided the link in case you wanted the source of that quote.
I didn't post it for you to evaluate the quality of the site or the quality of writing.
On a technical side, when the print and background make it difficult to read, try highlighting the text.
The highlighted text is easier to read.

Chuck, I read most of your posts. But, the dismissal of people's independent opinions as being foolish enough to follow media hype is not cool. Believe what you will but, it is quite naive not to realize that people are exercising independent thought. The first thing I do when reading an article is go directly to the source, as I did with this situation.

There is no question that a lot of people in this country despise what Noem did. There are certainly a noticeable number that defend her too. But, that backlash and career nose dive wouldn't be happening if she hadn't of upset a lot of people.

I've been trying to find the exact area to show you that there were suburbs within reach, which there probably were. Even if not, people rescue from all over the country. There is a national network that was well set up 20 years ago when this happened. It came about with the internet. I've read a lot of exerts from Noem's books and watched a variety of her interviews. I never trust the media not to take selected quotes out of context. I will say that when searching for the exact area, I came across a lot of articles and op eds that reflected my personal views. I was surprised because some of the things I came away with after reading as much objective facts of the matter, so did the msm. It wasn't the other way around. The facts of the matter speak for themselves.

Again, you are getting hung up on the term puppy. It has not been hidden that the dog was 14 months old. People can think of the canine in whatever terms they will. The dog lovers I know think of that as a pup. But, 14 months, by whatever term, is 14 months. I've not come across anything that misrepresents an image of a 12 month old baby pup.

The circumstances in this case are pretty clear. People can conclude from them what they will, without leaning on anyone else to form their opinions. It was not a problem for me. There was no stopping the dog once in was in the coop. Yes, I have had stray dogs go after me. When I was in Costa Rica, I took a tasty bite and had to get antibotics. But, it was my fault, not the pack of little knee high ankle biters. I turned down the wrong street on my four wheeler looking for a friend's house in a remote area. The not so welcoming committee was only protecting their hood. My own dog turn on me and try to bite me? No...but I was never a ranting, angry lunatic, going after it with the intention of dragging it a gravel pit and kill it.

It is being speculated that Trump may still be considering her for VP. Hopefully, he isn't that stupid. Aside from getting thrown in jail or some legal acrobats by the Democrats, that is probably the only thing that could stop Trump. If he loses voters like me and my family, he can lose anyone over this Noem business.

On a final note about the media machine, what Biden did with his 2 year old pup, was horribly irresponsible and very likely resulted in the dog's premature death. That got very little discussion in the press, as compared with Noem. Noem's was more graphic but both were, in my opinion, telling of the kind of people they are.

Also, we've had so much back and forth here. I didn't see the video. Do you have the link handy?

Cheyenne posted:
Chuck, I read most of your posts.

Response:
Maybe it's just me but when I open a new thread, I feel responsible to address every serious response directed to me, not just "most."
I also address every serious non rhetorical question, even if just to say "That/those question(s) don't deserve an answer"
There is nothing more aggravating than trying to clarify a statement or position only to have the question ignored.

I'm still miffed at your post to Fahrenheit451, namely: "I'm not to going read through Chuck's BS..."
I believe you skim my posts and respond sporadically to items presented.

As with the video I linked to: My comments that referred to that video would have little impact since you didn't watch it.
A comment such as: "I don't watch blind videos" would be appreciated if that indeed is your reason.
I supplied a link to it in two separate posts, yet you claim the "back and forth" is the reason you didn't see it.
I take that as an indication that your post to Fahrenheit451 about not reading my "BS" is accurate.
Maybe 3rd time's the charm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1k4wNXfDB8

I knows you are busy and are active on many threads.
But my time is limited as well and if my posts are not worth reading, they are not worth my time to post.

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Cheyenne posted:
The first thing I do when reading an article is go directly to the source, as I did with this situation.

Response:
That's all I'm asking for. What is your source?
I couldn't find one that was not predicated on the quotes selected by the MSM.

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Cheyenne posted:
I've been trying to find the exact area to show you that there were suburbs within reach...

Response:
I haven't found it either though I haven't searched hard.
I'm just trying to point out that South Dakota is one of the least dense states.
The availability of services may not be available or as convenient.
The difference in cultures between farms and cities is also significant.
I believe that is why her actions were not bizarre to her but horrify city dwellers.

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Cheyenne posted:
I was surprised because some of the things I came away with after reading as much objective facts of the matter, so did the msm.

Response:
That is why your source of information is important.
If your "objective facts" are solely from out-of-context selections by the MSM, it would not be surprising for your conclusions to match that of the MSM.
In your search for facts, did you find much that would mitigate the narrative that most believe?
If I understand correctly, Noem wrote several pages about the incident.
Doesn't it strike you odd that in all that text, there wouldn't be more quotes that justify her actions?
The only one of note is when Noem said the dog was "dangerous to anyone she came in contact with."
And that is not prominent in most accounts and, when it is mentioned, it is downplayed or presented as a CYA after thought.
There is no mention of the the dog being rehomed to her for aggressive behavior.
I wish I had saved the link as I can't find it now to verify its validity.

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Cheyenne posted:
My own dog turn on me and try to bite me? No...but I was never a ranting, angry lunatic, going after it with the intention of dragging it a gravel pit and kill it.

Response:
Where did you get the information that Noem was a ranting, angry lunatic?
I would have guessed a scared, angry owner responsible for the dog's actions.
And really, do you really think the dog tried to bite her because it thought it was going to be shot is some gravel pit?

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As to the rest of your post, Trump and Biden's actions are not of concern to me in this thread.
My concern is the media tactics in the war against conservatives.

Chuck, usually I do the same as you and take the time to read and respond to everything. But, my personal views being dismissed as if I'm a msm zombie instead of an independent thinker made me a lot less interested and patient.

That is a good video. Cats can be amazing. There is a video out there in which a cat runs off coyotes going after an elderly dog.

Chuck, I generally enjoy and respect your posts. I agree that if someone takes the time to put thought into a post, it should be read by the people engaged in the conversation. Again, I was really put off by the msm remarks, as if my views were not being appreciated as being my own. I apologize. Let's put that behind us.

My source was digging for as many exerts of Noem's book I could find and watching her interviews and giving a public statement. I didn't save the links but there are entire paragraphs from her book out there. What I have experienced and witnessed of animal rescue and raising dogs was also a factor of my views.

There may not have been as many services within reach. But, there are nationwide resources that are not difficult to find. I live in a rural area. At times I've lived in much more rural areas. My experience is that people who live in rural area and farmers love dogs too. It is very common for them to have dogs and cats, often pregnant or with a litter of babies dropped off at their places overnight. In too many cases of unwanted animals, they end up on the front lines of rescue. There is a study out there that points to 97% of people, including those in rural areas, consider dogs part of the family. I didn't post the study because I wasn't familiar with the source of the study. A study is only as good as it was conducted. But, from what I've seen having grown up between a suburb in Ohio and a very rural area in Virginia and the many places I've lived or spent significant time all over the country and Costa Rica, that study is close to accurate. I'd say at the very least 85%.

Ted, I heard the full account in Noem's words. I looked beyond the selective quotes. I just don't buy her story. When you put everything together, it doesn't add up. For a dog of that breed to be that young and aggressive toward people, something very bad had to have happened to the dog. The only other thing that could cause that is if the dog were going blind or had rabies. There is no mention of either one. Her story of taking an aggressive, dangerous, playful and happy young dog into her home with her young daughter doesn't add up. She is on a CYA tour. Her anger that she isn't good at masking is not doing well for her. She's being outright snarky in her interviews. I made the connection with the killing of the dog and goat on my own. I hadn't heard discussed the press until I stumbled across an op ed, that frankly felt like hit piece. I shared the views of the author. But, had no respect for the way she presented them. There are a lot of moving parts here. And, I do agree the media is loving the sensationalism of the story instead of giving it an objective presentation. That should be no surprise. It is what they do. Fox is as guilty of it every other one. My point here, Noem's actions and words speak for themselves.

I mess around in the Fox News comment section a little. Views of this are probably about 70/30 against Noem. Take away the liberal factor and is more like 50/50. That is a guess. In my circle of family and friends, they are all disgusted with 1 exception. Most of us are animal lovers, have lived in rural areas and a few grew up on farms. My friends in Tennessee who do animal rescue are disgusted. Although the influx of northerners and city folks have changed the demographics, my area is still Trump country. But, from the people I know, if he chooses Noem as VP or hints at a cabinet pick, Trump signs will be coming out of people's yards.

Noem said she hated the dog. She fumed about it having ruined the pheasant hunt and killing chickens. The picture I get from her behavior that day, which was followed by taking out a goat for behaving like a goat and talking about it with disgust, was that having a ranting hostile woman who was the aggressor with the dog. This wasn't caught on video tape. Much of it is left more people who take the time to delve into as much as they can find, without commentary, to piece it together. That is what I believe is the likely situation.

Noem's actions is what started strife among conservatives. The media's "War" against conservatives has been alive and well for decades. This is being hotly discussed now but just a blip on their overall radar. As I touched on earlier, if Trump stays aligned on a close level with Noem, he'll lose a significant amount of support. I wouldn't be surprised if it even cost him the election. Conservatives are used to media spin. Much of it will fall on deaf ears. It is what Noem did, not what the media says about it, that will cost him people like me.

Cheyenne posted:
...my personal views being dismissed as if I'm a msm zombie instead of an independent thinker made me a lot less interested and patient.

Response:
Your independent thinking led you to post a hit piece on Noem.
The title alone indicates a post based on emotion and not logic.
Comparing the her intelligence to "Dementia Joe" is like comparing Trump to Hitler.
A more accurate title would be "Are Biden's handlers more political savvy than Noem?"
You praise Biden for not publicizing "his irresponsible and heartless behavior."
But why bring in Biden at all? He's not relevant to your point.

As an independent thinker, you created your own narrative by selecting quotes from the selection that MSM provided.
I still don't know where you got the information that the dog had no biting history.
One of the few mitigating quotes that the MSM did provide stated that Noem assessed the dog was "dangerous to anyone she came in contact with."
Your narrative ignored that statement and your response when I posted it was to again ignore it and state: "Noem did not indicate the dog was a danger to people."

Your personal views were not dismissed, they were challenged. You failed to address those challenges.

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Cheyenne posted:
That is a good video. Cats can be amazing.

Response:
The video caught my attention because of the cat.
However my reason for posting it was to illustrate how one incident by a dog that was supposedly loved and considered safe around children led to it being put down.
Noem witnessed a similar incident where her dog savagely killed several chickens and then turned on her, presumably when she tried to control it.

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Cheyenne posted:
My source was digging for as many exerts of Noem's book I could find and watching her interviews and giving a public statement.
I didn't save the links but there are entire paragraphs from her book out there.

Response:
So if I want to challenge the context in which you acquired your information, I have to search on my own and guess which ones you used?

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Cheyenne posted:
What I have experienced and witnessed of animal rescue and raising dogs was also a factor of my views.

Response:
I respect that and acknowledge you have more experience in that regard.
However you come to conclusions without considering the obstacles and circumstances that Noem faced.
There are many circumstances that you don't know and have no way of knowing, yet you conclude Noem is at fault.
A few examples:
The dog's origin and behavior when Noem acquired the dog.
Her experience and ability to train a dog.
The availability of training facilitates.
The behavior of the dog when she owned it.
Why Noem didn't like the dog.
How hard it would be to rehome a chicken killer who would turn on its owner.

So to answer your earlier question, who am I to declare what people want when I have no experience with rescue?
I'm one who looked up the opinions of those who do have experience, in this case particularly with those who face the difficult decision to put down a pet.

I'm out of time to respond to the rest of your post.
I'll try to get to it later. If you have a particular item you particularly want me to address, let me know.

A hit piece? I'm not a journalist. This is a small discussion forum with posters sharing their views. Our discussions have no impact on anyone we discuss. Chuck, you manage to insult me again saying that I am forming my opinion based on emotion. I've given valid logical reason why I've come to the conclusion that I have. I'm not demanding anyone agree with me or trying to change their mind. I'm expressing my views and explaining while I believe the way on do on the subject.

Chuck, I'm just going to say it. F Off with your msm BS. I took the time to research this myself. You can't accept that. If you don't know, by know, how much I distrust all of the media, then you haven't been paying attention to our numerous discussion over the years.

The breed, itself, is not on the nationwide biting list. It is known to be an incredibly friendly dog who is gentle with children and people in general. Again, I've made points that you demanding I repeat over and over again.

I never said that Noem didn't say the dog wasn't dangerous to people. I said her story doesn't add up and is contradicted by her behavior and even her own account.

I've addressed every one of your challenges with fact, knowledge and life experience. It is you who fails to be objective and come from a place of stubborn emotion.

How do you know, from that video, who that dog belonged and how it came across the little boy? How do you know any background on that dog at all? Do you even have a guess at the breed? What do you know about it? You are comparing that to Noem's situation, which is ludicrous.

So, the dog killed chickens. It doesn't make it a savage. It makes it unfit to be around chickens. From Noem's account, it looks as if the dog went to bite her when she went off in a hostile and abusive manner. That is what it looks like...and it looks like she is a self serving liar. Again, their is no video tape. All anyone has to piece together what information is out there and come to our own conclusion. You don't have to like mine, although it is from a much more educated place on the subject that yours. But, ripping into and continuing to insult me is not cool.

Chuck, I didn't save the links. Do you really want me to track them down again? You are such a self proclaimed expert here, it is surprising that you don't already have this information. I will track it down in the day or two but only if you stop your BS insults. Because, I'm over it. This is not the Chuck I know. Maybe something going with you. But, you are usually a reasonable poster even when we are in complete disagreement.

Again, no one can claim to know 100% what happened. I'm telling you what it looks like. Dogs get rehomed even if they don't get along with other dogs, cats, even children...so to rehome a dog that killed chickens is not a big deal. Have you ever done it? I have.

You find any random article online to fit your point that you feel like. There are dozens to fit dozens of self invented narratives. I'm telling you what is like in real time, over multiple states from first hand experience. You can respect that or not. But, I'm over your insults. I'm beginning to wonder if this is the same Chuck, I've been posting with for years.

What are you trying to win here? No one is asking you to agree with them. I respect that you have a different opinion. I'm not accusing you of pulling it from bias or an ultra conservative media platform. I will give you the benefit of the doubt that it is what you actually believe. Why can't you do the same for other posters?

Is Chuck suddenly becoming the new Maxweber?......

Or was Chuck really Maxweber all along?.....(with his several usernames)

How do you know this is the real Chuck ?

Just asking for a friend....

Cheyenne posted:
F Off with your msm BS.

Response:
Okay

I don't believe that the Chuck from MF was a troll at all. He was a very nice man who was capable of cordial debate. I noticed a shift in the screen name's personality here. Either it was an imposter or something is going on with his health that is making him highly irritable. His redundancy and nonsensical behavior in this thread rings more like the tease toy troll. It is sad to see. I really liked him a lot. This can't be the name person for whatever reason.

The Chuck from MF was not a troll but this new Chuck screen name might be.....

So yes this could be teasetoy or Maxweber in disguise......But the old reasonable "Chuck" from MF is long gone....

You call me out for not giving more detailed and thoughtful responses, so I take the time to do and express my exasperation with your non stop insults and accusations that other posters are zombies to the msm and you answer with one word? It is difficult to imagine this is the same Chuck from MF. The Chuck from MF was able to have intense exchanges and be cordial even when disagreeing with other posters. I was very fond of that poster. Either something is going non that is changing your personality or this screen name is an imposter. Perhaps, this topic simply has everyone's emotions running a bit high. I'm going to take Scooby's advise and lock the thread. I should have already done it. If you want to address my last post, that would great. In any case, you can have the last word and then I will lock it.

Respectfully, Mistress, maybe you should lock this thread. It has spiraled out of control.